Item Rarity is way, way, way too good in this game, and it's going to dramatically warp endgame
Item Rarity has always been good, but with the new design of POE 2, there are fewer sources, and Item Rarity improves currency drop quality, which it did not in POE. You needed quantity for that, which was basically impossible to stack unless your build was entirely designed around being a MF culler.
Because Item Rarity now effects basically everything, this means that a relatively small amount of Item Rarity on gear has an absolutely astounding impact on your quality of play experience.
I had a very different experience in the campaign from most people, playing on day 1 - I had half a dozen exalts after act 1, I was seeing plenty of rares, etc, etc.
In hindsight, this was because I had a couple pieces drop extremely early with both life and rarity on them, so I spent most of the campaign rocking like 25-35% item rarity, even a little more after I picked up a lucky +1 minions helm in act 2 with rarity on it and literally didn't replace that until maps.
Now in maps, every single item rarity upgrade is sharply noticeable. Going from 1 Ventors to 2, getting a 30% rarity pair of gloves, getting my Ingenuity - every single one of these purchases is immediately noticeable and extremely impactful.
I think this is really bad for the game. I don't think the best thing about a gear upgrade should be that it has 10% more rarity. I should be excited to acquire player power, not going over my build with a fine toothed comb to figure out how much player power I can lose and still do maps.
But the reality is that it's become obvious to me that if I could trade 20% of my build's power for 30% more item rarity, that would be the obviously correct decision - sure I might die occasionally or bosses might take an extra 5-10 seconds, but who cares when it makes everything I do more rewarding - making maps significantly more lucrative, and just improving everything about the experience except actually playing the game.
Even worse, not every build can actually afford to index significantly into item rarity. I'm playing a meta build that isn't reliant on uniques and has a lot of good options to build into for defense. It's relatively easy for me to trim an affix here and an affix there from my gear to make space for significant amounts of item rarity, because the reality is my build is strong enough that I can afford to wear gear that only has 4 affixes contributing to direct player power.
This is not a universally true statement. Many builds work, but only when they have a critical mass of relevant affixes and defensive layers, and those things can quickly, quickly crunch out room for the MF affix on gear. Or you're forced to make really ugly choices between important defensive suffixes or key offensive prefixes vs magic find.
If Magic Find is a universal god stat in endgame, then endgame is going to get very restrictive, very quickly, as we optimize. Builds that cannot afford to give up 12-14 affixes across their gear will automatically not be tier 1, simply because no amount of clear speed or good vibes can make up for each individual map being 3x more rewarding for someone stacking MF.
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Meanwhile I had 70% rarity through most of the campaign and had the opposite experience, noticed 0 difference if I swapped gear to 0 rarity. I think you just got lucky.
This is another 'I found X-amount of Y during Z, and this is why it's bad'-thread.
It's not statistically significant and therefore subjective at best.
If it's as strong as it currently seems then it will most likely be nerfed. Honestly the current numbers were probably balanced for campaign and not for endgame.
Edit: but also I'm not convinced that the large majority of builds in the game can't afford to dedicate at least 2 affixes to rarity. That sounds like a very big assumption to me.
MF was bad in D2, bad in GW2, and bad in POE1
Stop adding archaic design back to the game.
Couldn’t disagree with this more lol.
In PoE1 rarity was never really a thing on most builds.
In PoE2, if you’re telling me it IS helpful, that’s a good thing. It’s a balancing act between rarity and survivability, especially if you only get one life in a map.
My experience has been the same. I don’t understand how anybody could have a different experience, and I’m convinced they’re just bad at keeping track of their drops.
I’ve been keeping my rarity around 30%, I’m on my second character, (bricked my first on second ascension trial teleporting out) and I have 6 uniques, dunno if it’s cuz the rarity or not but now I don’t want to drop it down any lol
You sacrifice offense/defense for more reward. More risk = more reward. Isnt that the entire basis for the game?
It seems like your overall concern is build balance and that has nothing to do with rarity.
Fewer sources? I’ve found significantly more sources of it in poe2. It is a pretty common roll on pretty much all rare items.
It does seem to be pretty strong though, but I’m glad we aren’t pigeon holed into a few of the same uniques to make use of it, that is my main gripe with magic find in poe1
Removing rarity seemed like the easiest low hanging fruit ever, it baffles me it’s still in the game and buffed at that. They removed quant for the exact reason in poe1 i cannot fathom how they came to this decision for 2.
If you think it ruins the game then don’t run it.
Contrary to the others in this thread, I agree with you. Obviously all our experiences are completely anecdotal but my friends and I have faced the same phenomena. I went from 0 to 40 rarity which felt like night and day then to 80 rarity and it feels like I can’t get enough of it so I just keep dropping player power. I’ve dropped 4 raw divs at 40+ rarity with less time played and none at 0 rarity lmao. Keep in mind this is all breach farming T15s so it’s the same strategy and all, but with more rarity (and less player power)
This gives me vibes of affliction league where doing anything but the meta farming strats felt horrible (while the constant tinks were fun and felt like cocaine, I don’t think it’s healthy for the long term of any game). Having major FOMO to get as much rarity as possible and optimizing the fun out of the game just feels bad. I know I can always play how I want but I like playing in SC Trade with friends and the rarity shenanigans will inflate everything.
I want to be playing an ARPG where I can feel my player power increase and start to absolutely melt screens and delete bosses, not this.
Anyways this is EA and I have full trust in GGG. I’m confident they can strike a good balance in this system (tho I despise rarity and just wish they remove it tbh).
MF is awful design since d2 and it should be removed and forgotten.
didn't they change rarity some seasons ago to apply to currency in poe 1? I remember something like that in the patch notes
Rarity is too strong, yes. It's also an extremely common and easy to obtain stat in PoE 2. I've incidentally ended up with close to 100 rarity more or less by accident, in SSF, making all my gear from scratch or picking it up off the ground. It's been super common for me to find pieces with 20%+ with 3 other critical attributes (res, life, stat).
I think it probably needs to be toned down how impactful it is, because you're right, anecdotally it's making all the difference in the world. We'd need some more robust testing to really dial in how big of an impact it is having, but after ramping up from ~20% to ~100% and testing a 3 charm belt for ~160%, it's definitely making a big impact on my drops. We're talking the difference between getting an exalt or regal every 4-5 rares, to getting one or two every rare.
In practice, this is making it a mandatory stat to compete. Now, you can opt out of competing, and I often do in SSF, but this is not how most players approach the game. People want to push leaderboards and amass currency to make OP characters, and rarity being more or less mandatory to do so is not a great game state.
Even if you approach this from the context of mapping, you could use 5 affixes to get 100% rarity (and these aren't perfectly rolled affixes, just normie rolls on 5 pieces), and be able to run safe affix blue maps with the same efficacy that someone using those 5 slots for defensive options could run some spicier yellow or even corrupted yellow maps. I'd argue that the worst affixes are so punishing that the player running non-rarity gear will be less consistent and overall obtain less loot as a result.
Too late
Item rarity and quantity shall have no place in the game. Philosophically.
Maybe the stat weight and availability needs to be shifted to tablets then?
Agree. I think it's also important to highlight that rarity causes more tiered items to drop and at higher tiers. Tiered items are insanely important right now because of how limited our ability to craft is. Picking up a t5 that is basically guaranteed to roll top 2-3 tiers on any given mod can yield insane items. Rarity has a huge impact on these drops in my experience.
Ngl I couldn’t disagree more. This one what I felt was one of the best item acquisition methods of diablo 2. Having to balance a magic find set of armor and true stength. Either wearing gear to farm better items for trading or improving power, or going full strength for pushing the toughest levels and getting exp.
It absolutely helps but rng can still fuck ya
Idk bro. I have 55% and notice zero difference. Still aint finding shit and halfway through a3 norm
Probably too late for anyone to notice this comment, but allow me to play devil's advocate:
A very strong rarity stat might actually allow GGG to have their cake and eat it too with respect to gameplay speed.
Clearly GGG wants PoE2 to be a slower game than PoE1, but there is a vocal crowd of players that really want to zoom.
Part of the problem is that giving in to this crowd basically ensures that the best builds are ALWAYS going to be as zoomy as possible, so if you enable zoom then the meta is going to be zoom because the meta chases whatever is strongest, and in ARPGs, clearspeed is generally the benchmark.
Allowing players to trade off power (and therefore clear speed) for improved drops allows for builds that provide a slower experience while still "paying out" at the same rate per time played as zoomy builds.
If correctly balanced, IIR allows GGG to balance the game such that the zoomy players can have their builds without those builds necessarily being strictly better than slower builds.
It's a lot less shitty than in PoE 1 though, getting one "dead" stat on each gear slot that isn't Belt and Chest is a good compromise for better loot. In PoE 1 you had to run a HH wearing glass cannon with a bunch of dead uniques that were only Quant/Rarity stat sticks.
It also has to have greatly diminishing returns after the 100-200%. If it doesn't then yeah that'll definitely get tweaked but if it does it's way less dramatic than what we might believe it to be.
Maybe they could drop rarity on gear and make it a charm or rune.
I jad a similar experience.. lucky early rares with rarity and my drops were awesome all canpsign (though i didnt know this was why)
I actually agree with the notion that item rarity is bad for the game to be on gear. Rarity is so strong that optimizing your build is actually a matter of stacking rarity and playing whatever difficulty you can still do easily. Pushing your limits and playing hard content isn't more rewarding than just playing it safe and breezing through easier (and more juiced) maps.
I agree with you entirely.
I got 1 piece with +30% rarity...and a couple others with 10-10 so Umar 50% or higher rarity.
Replacing that 30% is gonna hurt so bad I feel..so I'm looking for that golden goose with good stats AND rarity which is holding back my build..not by much but enough for it to be a problem.
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I wish they stuck item rarity on charms instead...as a "nice to have". Would be so much better IMO.
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Or just give us consumable drops that allow item rarity for 1 map..max 1 per map.
I like rarity
My issue with magic find is that it's an easy way out of actual design. Like the compromise Magic Find poses to the player is to give up some power for better loot, but why aren't we just pursuing harder, more rewarding content instead?
Having MF be an option sets the content difficulty cap lower than it could be, because if the strongest builds in the game can afford to have so many affixes not contributing to their power and still easily destroy the hardest content in the game, the content isn't that hard (also, there is a lot to say about balance as a Deadeye might be able to afford this but I doubt a Warbringer can, especially to that degree).
I'd much prefer builds needing to pursue as much power in their niche gameplay as possible to tackle the most rewarding and hardest content they can. When the most rewarding content isn't the most challenging one, the most optimized route ends up being a boring one.
I've posted this before but - item rarity should have a greed mechanic. Not just "more loot" but it should also apply a less damage dealt and more damage taken modifier to your character.
It should be something you have to build around intentionally, not a premium statline on your boots.
Rarity at the moment is too easy, watch some of empys stream for a minute to see that only a handful of players can supply the entire economy. I don’t know how I would change this or not.
Item rarity as a stat is the worst idea in ARPGs.
They truly need to give up entirely on the concept of gear-based item rarity and quantity. It's been a shit concept since the day it was birthed in early ARPGs and is still a plague to this day.
What build is it you're playing that's so strong?
Rarity should only affect quality drop chances. So you have a higher chance of getting a gem, armor, etc. with quality.
Try logic but hole
I think I also ended with 5 exalts, And I spent 5 exalts crafting things
I think thats normal. My entire guild did.
I used currency to craft things and still ended up with 20 exalts at the end of act3. Unsure how much rarity i had on my gear though.
I wouldn't mind it if it was a mechanic that was seperate from gear. Maybe something like "going x maps without dying increases item rarity by y" type equation. Similar to how humanity (functionally) works in DS1.
I don't like it competing with player power, basically. I pretty much want nothing to compete with player power aside from other varieties of player power (like maybe someone chooses lower dps in exchange for a more cozy mana regen because they don't like hitting their mana flask.)
Im so confused, I’m trying to understand where the problem is. So is the issue that theres not enough of a trade off when it comes to accumulating mf gear since its not taking up the space of other useful affixes? Or is your issue that mf exists and you just don’t like it as a mechanic?
Damn, we must not be playing the same game then.
Ya his post is just speculation bullshit call RNG, I have a friend with zero Mf dropped multiple divine and 3 perfect Jeweler
I had the opposite almost doing cruel act 1 - 3.. only 2 bosses dropped a Rare for me.. felt like a total joke playing through. 0 upgrades found all through cruel. Still wearing lvl 5 +1 minion hat. If it was for trade post, I'd would have giving up on this game. Never even found + minion specter.
Just play SSF and it all makes sense in the end.
Taking your experience and saying it’s universal is a mistake. I also had what I would suggest is an unusually large magic find stat 20-30% during most of act 1 and 2 and did not have results like you are suggesting.
Yeah magic find is nice but in no way is it mandatory.
Gear is the point of the game. Getting more means MF is the most important stat.
It has opportunity cost.
More character power instead of IR has value as well depending on each individuals goals.
If you are playing for dopamine spikes, then farming low/mid difficulty gear with IR gear can do that.
If you want to take on the most difficult content in the game, IR gear hinders you (unless you are using it to farm gear/currency to work towards more character power).
I want all MF removed from the game and replaced with methods to juice difficulty that yields rewards.
Items being weaker because you're replacing combat stats with loot stats feels bad. Enemies being harder and dropping more loot feels great.
MF in gear is ass.
Keep rarity and quantity contained in map mods and the atlas, but away from gear. I don’t care about gimping my gear to maximize profits.
Let us have fun. You sound like you just got lucky.