Map juicing guide and statistics
Below is guide to juicing maps and stats from trying to juice 1400 unsorted map drops.
What is map juicing?
Process of stacking modifiers on maps with currency in order to get the best possible maps to run. Here are criteria that I use for defining the best possible map:
- I generally want to optimize 2 things: looting and safety. Another criteria worth mentioning is speed, but at some point this becomes much less relevant. So having maximum loot while not dying is what I am going for.
- T16 - it is very important to get t16 maps as only with them you can access level 82 areas and only in those areas you can get ilvl84 items and consistently get ilvl82 items. This is important for getting high level modifiers on your gear. And even some white bases sell for 20-60 exalts.
- Delirious - in order to get additional modifiers and free simulacrum splinters. You can use some cheap oils to significantly enhance your maps. Notable cheap ones are Guilt, Greed and Paranoia. Guilt increases pack size, Greed adds rarity and Paranoia adds number of rare monsters.
- Maximizing loot means stacking 3 qualities on your waystone-map: Quantity of items, Quality of items and Quantity of mobs (usually though pack size or directly increasing number of rare mobs).
- Maximizing safety means not running modifiers that can kill you. Each build have their own list of dangerous modifiers that they should avoid and getting to level 15-16 maps you should know them. Some builds can ignore burning ground whilst some other can't, some builds die to 50% Elemental res, while some other don't care about that at all.
So ideal map would look something like:
T16, 20-25% quantity of items + 140%+ rarity of items + 60% increased rare monsters + no dangerous modifiers
These usually go on the market for 1-2 div if you wanna wait and for sure 70ex+ if you want almost instant sell.
Crafting process
- Take your unsorted T15 maps
- Use Orb of Alchemy on Normal quality maps, use Orb of Augmentation + Regal Orb on Magic quality maps. This should get all your maps to rare with at least 3 modifiers
- Remove ones that have Increased gold modifier or any dangerous modifiers
- Pick ones that have Rarity and ones that have both Rarity and Quantity. I usually discard the rest of the maps, but if you have a lot of exalts you can try to improve remaining maps and hit Rarity/Quantity on them too, but I found this process to be too expensive.
- Saturate with exalts each map. Once map hits gold or dangerous modifiers stop saturating with exalts and discard. You not going to be running this map.
- Now your maps are ready for delirium. Note: you cannot add delirium after corruption, make sure to do this step before vaaling. Pick oils that either going to min-max your map even further or mods that will add some missing params. I.e. if your map is already at 120%+ rarity then adding more rarity doesn't make much sense, add increased rare mobs instead.
- Now the last thing is to corrupt the maps with hope that map will not be completely bricked and will get T16 upgrade.
Stats
I have collected data of doing process above from 1400 maps and wanted to share my findings:
- Before saturating with exalts ~35% of maps will be "safe" and have either Rarity or Quantity + Rarity modifier. This percentage will be variable and decrease with number of suffixes that are dangerous for you. My stats assume 2 dangerous mods.
- After saturating with exalts this percentage drops to ~27.5%
Now the most interesting part is corruption, it can modify waystone a few different ways:
- Add modifiers (usually +1 prefix and +1 suffix)
- Convert map into all prefix map (Can create perfect T15, but also quite common to add Gold. Those without Gold are REALLY good for Breach as they usually have huge boosts to pack sizes and no danger, so you will be going through Breach like knife through butter)
- Convert map into all suffix map (These have 500%+ waystone modifier and can go up to 700%, very useful to farm citadels and waystones)
- Lower tier by 1
- Increase tier by 1
- Do nothing
I have corrupted 387 juiced maps to this point and the data looks like this:
- 104 had no effect - still good maps, you can use them on most nodes
- 48 lost tier - good for making your way to towers and nodes
- 40 - got all prefix mod, and only 8 of them didn't have Gold mod.
- 41 - got all suffix mod, and only 2 remained safe for me to run
- 112 - added modifiers, 9 of them got Gold or dangerous mod.
- 42 increased 1 tier - making what we actually wanted (7 had both quantity and rarity and 35 had only rarity)
Economy
I've never bough maps myself, but quick math shows that you can make some decent profit here if you can find decent source of cheap Normal/Magic T15 maps, i.e. buying them for 1-2ex or cheaper.
Math for 100 maps:
- 100 maps x 1.5 ex each = 150 ex
- 100 alch orbs to get to rare = 25 ex
- ~35 maps ready to be saturated with exalts, 2 ex each = ~70 exalts (less because some maps will drop due to new mods)
- presumably 27 maps left
- 3ex per map to instill = 80-90 ex to instill
- 27 vaal to corrupt = 3 ex
So in total investment is ~330 exalts (2.2 div)
- 3 maps should be in range of 1-2 div each, T16, good mods, instilled. 3-6 div total
- 3 maps should be T15 +2 mods. 20-30 ex each
- 3 maps should be all suffix, maybe 10 ex each
- 10 maps should be T15 unchanged 2-10 ex each
- Lost tier maps probably up to 2 ex max
- All suffix - depends on the buyer
But overall you can expect to make anywhere from 4div to 10div, the only issue is enoguh supply.
Summary
On average you expect to make about 3% of your maps PERFECT and ready to be used in level 82 areas for maximum looting. The rest varies from junk to decent to good, but not perfect. About 15% of maps (no effect, all prefix, added mods) are perfectly good maps to run any node and 0.5% all prefix maps without gold are perfect for running superstacked breach encounters.
This is it.
TLDR: JUICE
Comments
great guide man! just wanted to point out prefix is quant rarity and suffix is waystone, u have them switched up there under corruption
Convert map into all suffix map (Can create perfect T15, but also quite common to add Gold. Those without Gold are REALLY good for Breach as they usually have huge boosts to pack sizes and no danger, so you will be going through Breach like knife through butter)
Convert map into all prefix map (These have 500%+ waystone modifier and can go up to 700%, very useful to farm citadels and waystones)
You got those mixed. Suffixes increase waystone chance, prefixes are the good things.
This is exceptionally well done. Thanks
Since valuabe mod are only prefix could the omen that add only that kind of modifier work?
Thank you
Thanks. The small portion of T16 with remaining quant prefix reflects my experience.
However, my biggest issue is not the economy on this. Incl. Sales I earn 2+ div in short term per juiced map. My issue is to set up a meaningful area. My corrupted areas consist to of 90% shit maps like crypt etc. Setting up a 5 tower spot takes 50+ maps to clean and often provides only 2-3 decent maps (eg Savannah). Even if I only consider my fastest map clear of ~2 min/map this will lead me to 2+hrs only for setup. Not even taking long maps like Vaal city or Vaal Factory into account.
What are your thoughts on this? Is my Atlas layout just unlucky?
I’ve corrupted like 100 maps and 3 turned t16 and about 10-15 turned t14… waiting for my luck to turn around lol. But good write up. Glad to see some data showing the +/- tier is close to even chance
I'm running T2 maps and I'm completelly scared about the mechanics of the atlas and juicing. It's too much.
Just wanted to thank you for this. I'm new to POE in general and just hit t15 maps yesterday and searched for a guide to start juicing. Nothing really answered my questions in the way your explanation did. Checked every box.
Distilling is still a bit confusing as a noob, I likely need to start using them and then it'll click for me. So many modifying regents. Thanks again!
You can use an omen of sinestral that makes an orb of alchemy only apply prefixes so you can get no negatives every single time. They aren't that expensive and would probably save you a ton of money and give a much higher good map ratio.
Couple questions:
What is wrong with gold? I get it doesn’t matter much but sounds like you actively don’t run maps that have it?
Also, is there a list of ilvl 82 bases to target? Or pretty much any of the top of their respective type tends to be worth gathering?
Thanks for sharing!
Comment to save
If your waystone already has 3 positive modifiers from an alchemy orb, what is the reason behind exalting it? Doesn't that just add negative modifiers?
if you are running 140 rarity on maps does that mean you have 0 rarity on your equip?
So are you running these juiced t16 on all your corrupted/irradiated nodes with events? And just passing through other nodes on your atlas with whatever? Like you see a breach on an ok map but it’s not juiced by towers or corrupted/irradiated. You’d not use a juiced waystone here right?
Way too much work for such little reward. Pretty shitty system in my opinion
Good guide! Solid information and stats!
Do you have any thoughts on using the double-corrupt Atlas Keystone for extra juice? In my experience, it often adds extra value to maps with bad amounts of juice but it also adds a considerable amount of friction in having to judge whether the corruption did anything terrible.
It really requires an S-tier build to be able to put double-corrupt super juiced maps (oops, all suffixes!) on farm but it's incredible fun.
Do the set up maps even pay for the hassle solo? I don't doubt 6 man's make bank, but solo just churning and burning free high deli maps seems to be pretty steady income. Of course you can combine the two, but then you're wasting all that time rolling maps and not running them.
If you could do it consistently, running t4 simulacrum would give you lots of 82 loot and access to the 20 div flask with a lot less hassle as well.
What do you mean when you sat " gold mod". Is it like increase gold dropped or something else. Also thank you for this guide
idk I can run all juiced maps no matter the mods what are the numbers like on that?
so based on your data, vaaling is troll
Great writeup, thanks for sharing.
Alch and Go gang Rise up. Our returns may be less, but so are our headaches from not having to deal with this shit.
elon maps guide
jokes apart, thanks for sharing really good info
Have you considered running the "double vaal" atlas node for the T15 maps that didn't get +1?
I am using a system where I turn that passive on and off to get more shots at T16s but haven't run enough to have data yet
I vaaled 15 maps earlier didn’t hit a single T16 and 60% of the maps turned all terrible mods, only 3 were left that I could run after kicking out the bad mods and T14s
Major RNG screw job lol.
What’s the expected return if running a 1 div map?
You save the bad maps for towers and map nodes with no other special buffs right
Dude, awesome write up. Thank you. I feel as this can take me to the next level.
However, it took me 61 (yes, sixty-one) t15 maps corrupted before I got a t16 map. Not just a “runnable” t16 map. One, single t16 map. How in the world are you getting 42/387?!?!
I swear to god it made me quit trying for them altogether. If there is actually a ~10% chance to hit a t16, my experience would be in the outer outliers and it pissed me off. Seems glitched or something.
My favourite method is still alch + delirious and go with as much as breach or/and boss (if the boss passive tree is 10/10) you can get from towers. With enough rarity on gear (I have something around 150%), drops are pretty satisfying. Vaaling unliked maps (or hard maps for the build). In average, you should be getting at least 15-20 ex. value with this as pure currency + shards per map (with items and with exclusion of lucky drops like pure Divs or 10 breaches, it is close to 35-40 ex. per map). And I am just going mindlessly tower to tower without any setup or boss nodes if I ever need more T15 waystones.
So according to this, math for 30 maps (to compare calculation with OP results): 30 maps x 1.5 ex each = 45 ex 30 alch orbs to get to rare = 7.5 ex 0.2-0.3 ex per map to instill = 9 ex to instill (I am using the cheapest) 3 (usually 10%) vaal to corrupt = 0.3 ex
So in total investment is ~63 exalts (0.4 div)
For 27 maps: 27 maps * 20 ex = 540 ex
Over all stable profit of ~500 ex (3.3 Div) value as pure currency (things you can trade in Alva) + time (to run more maps) or 6-7 Div profit if you enjoy trading for items.
I don't have the sample size as big as OP but I am doing this since I reached level 85 in first week and I agree the TLDR, juicing makes a huge difference.
Edit: I am only checking the suffixes to see if there is something I can't run like -10 max. res. + monsters penetrate ele. res. I don't really care about prefixes although they are important it makes the whole process of running maps slower and with this setup it is more logical to spend time for running 2-3 more maps instead of checking all the mods on waystones.
haven't yet done a citadel (though I've found 4 coppers, no others. why would an all suffix map be good for farming citadels? wouldn't this make the already hard boss even harder?
Question, why do we keep juicing for more suffixes after it already has max prefix? Doesn't that just make the map worse? Or is it for waystone drop rate only ? Or is there some sort of loot benefit from having more dangerous maps
If my map already has Increase Quantity of items, Rarity of items in the prefixes, but only has 0-2 lines of suffixes, should I continue to slam with exalts until it is maxed to improve the drops?
Because from what I can see online, people are saying that the more mods, the better drops will be.
I finally got my spark build 90% complete and breezing through t15 maps, only to find out t16 maps can only be vaal’d. After 20 T15 Vaals and getting not one t16, I feel like I am about done with this game until the launch.
After t15 the game comes to a screeching halt and it’s a shame because I just got my build optimized to rip face.
In poe1 the best way to make money was flipping and craft flipping.
But you could get somehow similar but worse returns giga juicing.
In poe2 the best way to make money is again flipping, but this time farming maps is not even half as profitable as flipping.
I literally see zero sense in doing anything else than:
-
leveling new builds (at least campaign is not shit)
-
flip during leveling
Does it count to be T16 map if you use T15 waystone with the +1 level irradiated node in the atlas ?
My luck is so terrible that I'll somehow get a "map is guaranteed to drop a mirror" and still not get any currency to drop.
I've been hammering out juiced T15's minus the vaal and Spaceballz.
Good guide, however your mother. I jest i jest. HOWEVER I decided this was too time-consuming, boring, and honestly not amazing on divine per hour as opposed to just running everything ipso facto, even gold (you would use that gold to fish for ammies, they always sell high). And I would trans, aug, regal and 1 exalt or if white, 1 alch and then Vaal and then run double vaal atlas annoint. Most of the time the maps are really juicy by themselves with no investment in either currency or time. HOWEVER! I do save or buy T16 maps when I have corruption + irradiate combo, all the time. This ones are absolutely critical to run juiced T16 maps.
I wonder if changes depending on the type of map ran.
What biome is best for this? Which to avoid?
I was wondering how to better juice maps. This is some good stuff. I didn't know that bit on how to get t16 maps.
As someone just getting into mapping, what would the dangerous modifiers be?
Damn I wish I knew all this.
I just get the map to rare, Vaal it. Make sure double Vaal atlas node is on (I turn it off for citadels) and go.
I blow up once in 100-120 maps to deadly modifiers.
I make up for it by not reading.
Man after coming from D4 to this game and completely falling in love with the game, I can't help with the feeling shit like this is such a bad game design which no player actually enjoy.
I try this and run out of maps :( or more like I have too many maps with mods that brick my build.
Imma be honest, the whole giga juicing shit just stresses me out. It just causes immense fomo and I think new players need to hear that it's very far from mandatory to do this. I have played PoE 2 for 250 hours. My current gear is valued at ~400 div, I've spent ~ 60div on pinnacle boss fights to unlock points and I have ~150 div liquidated/stuff waiting to sell. I have not tried to optimize juicing on maps whatsoever.
I have played with 100% inc rarity on gear mainly ritual with delirious maps. All I do is use alch/regals/exalts to turn a bulk of t15 maps 6-mod, apply distilled guilt x3 for pack size (good for ritual tribute) and delirious and corrupt them. Those that turn t14 I use for towers, t15 I use for regular maps with ritual and t16 I use for ritual maps with map boss since it's guaranteed irradiated with 30% chance to have corruption to make it lvl 82.
Great work but I am left confused about the economy part. Did you run the maps, and the "ex each" part are the returns? Did you sell the maps on trade?
If you are running the maps and expecting 4-10 div return, that sounds pretty bad considering the time investment. But, I guess that's just currency making in poe2 atm (at least while mapping).
Why are the bricked maps with 500% + to waystones good for citadel farming ?
What does gold have to do with anything? Why can’t we run these maps?
Seem to me all you found is vaal map and around 10% well be good. Personal I look for 300 Quant and 100 rarity. I only look at mod for towers.
Ah, yes. This is why I re-roll a new character every time I make it to maps. I’m not trying to do all of this 😂